Learning for Agency Leaders | Shannon Kinney

David McBee: Hello and welcome to Simpli.fi TV. I am David McBee. Our guest today is the founder of Dream Local Digital, Shannon Kinney, a seasoned startup founder and executive with over 25 years of experience in digital marketing. She has been at the forefront of digital transformation for media companies since 1995 and has consulted with and presented to those companies, large and small, worldwide. With deep experience in sales, marketing, online product development, and leadership, Dream Local Digital is her third nationally scaled digital marketing solution company. She founded the company in 2009 to bring the power of online marketing to small and medium-sized businesses and she has helped more than 65,000 of those small and medium-sized businesses and media companies through her work with Dream Local Digital. Shannon, thank you for joining us today. Shannon Kinney: Thank you for having me. Thrilled to be here. David McBee: I'm thrilled to have you. Okay, so I know that Dream Local has been known for social media expertise ever since you were founded, but that was over a decade ago and so I'm sure you've seen a lot of changes in the space over the years. What are some of those changes? Shannon Kinney: Well, we sure have. We started with social media because it was sticky and it was a chance to really retain a client for a long time. It was not the easiest problem to solve when it comes to fulfillment, but it was an area that we just were really committed to. Over the years, what we've really seen evolve is that there is much more pressure on conversions, on real results, on understanding what's happening with that business, rather than just what I would call presence, which is make sure your Facebook page has good content that's updated regularly. Now, we see presence to conversion. We see really a rise in the importance of video and even short form video can have a significantly higher result rate and engagement rate than straight images. And we've really seen, the clients don't love it, but we've seen that it's really very difficult to outsource it entirely. So we spend more of our time now coaching our clients on how they can be part of the process and share just a little of the flavor of what's going on in the business versus it being a set it and forget it, "I'm paying them to do this and I'm out." And that has been so gratifying on the client services side and working with the clients, but a lot of clients just aren't ready to show up and be part of the experience yet. So, it's definitely a big shift. David McBee: So I have to confess, before my life here at Simpli.fi, I dove into the world you live in, and that was the thing that always stymied my success with the advertisers is that I didn't feel like I could take on all the social media and just do it for them. I needed their help. So how do you get them to play into that? Shannon Kinney: It's such a good point that you raise and I think we try to meet them where they are. Is it that they don't have time? And for those clients, we'll have a longer meeting with them, say once a quarter and interview them, pick their brain, get a ton of photos, and then spread it out. Is it because they don't know what's the right thing? And then we spend time coaching them, showing them what's going to drive the biggest engagement. We show them competitive analysis and some best practices. And we turned from content creators alone to coaches. And that has become a bigger part of the business. In fact, we ended up launching an SMB coaching program called Skills Builder for clients that don't want us doing it and they really, really want to do it themselves, but they just don't know what benchmarks are good, how to really drive results that they're looking for. And so in that way we just coach them. But, to your point, they need to be involved and engaged at some level, but you really just need to meet them where they are and then try to help them through it. David McBee: Absolutely. Where are you seeing the most growth in business in 2023? Shannon Kinney: So, when it comes to our clients that really care about social, to sort of build on what we're talking about, we're seeing that they're really looking for more of a full service solution rather than just us taking their Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, they also say, "Can you do my emails? Can you do my CRM? I can't keep up. Can you nurture these leads?" And so I'm seeing more of a request for a full service solution, multiple tactics. And we're also just seeing a ton of growth in lead generation and SEO. SEO is something that, you've been in the business a long time, we used to have to try to explain to a client why it mattered. Really now it's about what can you achieve? What's reasonable for expectations? What's a fair price for that to pay? In our sales side, managing people's CRMs, TikTok and Amazon are also very big growth areas. Businesses are curious about what's possible for them on either one of those platforms, and it's like the Wild West working with those platforms. We're direct partners with them and they're still figuring it out, but those are just areas we're seeing a lot of growth. David McBee: Okay. Now, if you're willing to share, what advice do you have for other agency leaders to help them be successful? Shannon Kinney: So, clients need a lot of coaching, as I mentioned. They want to understand the results. I literally just got off a results call where I went through data. They need to be part of the process. However, as an agency leader, you really need to understand your cost centers. You need to know, how much does it cost to service these clients and make sure that all of that is covered in your work. I know for us, we're in 14 and a half years doing this, it's straightforward at times to say, "This is how much it costs me to serve this, to achieve this goal," like SEO, for example. But you've got to layer in, what does it cost to service the client? and answer all the emails and pay and send the reports? To make sure that you are in a place where you can spend enough time doing the fulfillment work that you're driving the results that the clients are looking for. For us, because we partner with media companies that aren't able to offer that customer service, we knew that that last mile was such an important part of our work, and as a result, we have 93% plus retention rates across the board, but I have to make sure that we're pricing in a way that allows us to offer that service. So that was probably a lot of the learning curve, I'd say, over the past several years, particularly since the pandemic, that level of service is even more critical and just helping the client see the return on investment every single month in the work that you're doing. That's my best advice I think. David McBee: That's excellent advice. Thank you. All right, last question. Is there a book that you'd like to recommend, something that has helped you be successful in your career? Shannon Kinney: I am a bit of a book nerd and there are so many that I've read that I would love to talk about, but to be brief, and one that I think applies across all of the kinds of clients that we work with because we work with them in so many different industries, the one that I can think of that I think is the best is Start With Why by Simon Sinek. And I share that because so often in marketing or advertising, a business just wants to say they sell this and expect a result, but it's really storytelling, it's what differentiates a business, what their why is is when you really start to get to the root of an ability to create marketing and advertising that's going to really sing for them. So, going back to the principles of starting with why is something that we do with almost every client that we have and it really resonates. David McBee: You are not the first to recommend that book and I'm just waiting for my next Audible credit so that I can pick that one up. It's like a few days, so definitely- Shannon Kinney: Oh, it's fantastic. It's a great one and I have a lot that I've used to help grow my business, but that one, I think really for those of us in the marketing and advertising industry, it's got nuggets that you can apply to any client you're working with, in addition to yourself, so I think you'll really enjoy it. David McBee: Perfect. All right. Well, thank you very much for all your awesome wisdom today. I appreciate you being here on Simpli.fi TV. Shannon Kinney: You got it, David. Thanks for asking me. I'm honored. David McBee: And thank you guys for watching. I'm David McBee, be awesome, and we'll see you next time.